So what happened!

Other might like to know...

BG

Well BG, if it's important to you why don't you pick up the phone, call Dave and ask him? His contact info is available on the SSA site to members. Why start a another speculation riddled RAS string?
ROY

I talked to Dave a month or so ago and they still don't know what happened.

Boggs

Here, let me try! haha!

What was the issue that caused them to decide to bail out? That's obviously a big deal. I know I can call, but curious minds also read and try to bug people with what was a sketchy situation over and over.

Dave and Spence made a presentation at the Little Rock Convention regarding the incident. I can’t find the video archive of it, but I thought it was available.

Here’s the NTSB report, not yet concluded: https://data.ntsb.gov/carol-repgen/api/Aviation/ReportMain/GenerateNewestReport/97551/pdf

On Thursday, 11 February 2021 at 23:40:16 UTC, wrote:
> Here, let me try! haha!
>
> What was the issue that caused them to decide to bail out? That's obviously a big deal. I know I can call, but curious minds also read and try to bug people with what was a sketchy situation over and over.

I'm in another country, and wasn't flying that season, so I hadn't heard of this.

However, a simple Google search produces some things to read. The third item is a detailed report on a website called nadler.com

On 2/11/21 4:40 PM, Jason Leonard wrote:
> Here, let me try! haha!
>
> What was the issue that caused them to decide to bail out? That's obviously a big deal. I know I can call, but curious minds also read and try to bug people with what was a sketchy situation over and over.
>

http://www.nadler.com/papers/2020_Aftermath_Lessons_Learned_presented.pdf

A really important message in Dave's excellent (though frustratingly inconclusive) PPT from P1 and P2: post accident, write down EVERYTHING you can remember ASAP.

In my experience, spectators should do the same. I don't care how observant and resilient and aware you think you are, you'll start forgetting things and molding facts to fit into theories almost from the beginning. Especially if others witnessed the same accident, write down what YOU saw--in detail.. You can flesh them out and organize them later and even compare notes--which may not agree completely with others' accounts--but keep your ORIGINAL observations. Our minds work in mysterious ways.

Chip Bearden
JB

On Friday, February 12, 2021 at 9:52:59 AM UTC-5, IADPE wrote:
> Dave and Spence made a presentation at the Little Rock Convention regarding the incident. I can’t find the video archive of it, but I thought it was available.
>
> Here’s the NTSB report, not yet concluded: https://data.ntsb.gov/carol-repgen/api/Aviation/ReportMain/GenerateNewestReport/97551/pdf

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8I3A3dqsu0
copy and paste link
UH

On Friday, February 12, 2021 at 8:14:52 AM UTC-8, Hank Nixon wrote:
> On Friday, February 12, 2021 at 9:52:59 AM UTC-5, IADPE wrote:
> > Dave and Spence made a presentation at the Little Rock Convention regarding the incident. I can’t find the video archive of it, but I thought it was available.
> >
> > Here’s the NTSB report, not yet concluded: https://data.ntsb.gov/carol-repgen/api/Aviation/ReportMain/GenerateNewestReport/97551/pdf
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8I3A3dqsu0
> copy and paste link
> UH
Very unfortunate nothing so far has surfaced about how the LOC happened, especially with other LOC reported.

There can be only a few reasons that fit the facts. How can you possibly lose both the rudder and stick at the same time. The rudder stuck and the stick disconnected?
Running away from any speculation is effectively shutting down a larger collective way of thinking. Not all bad.

BG

On Friday, February 12, 2021 at 11:06:29 AM UTC-5, wrote:
> A really important message in Dave's excellent (though frustratingly inconclusive) PPT from P1 and P2: post accident, write down EVERYTHING you can remember ASAP.
>
> In my experience, spectators should do the same. I don't care how observant and resilient and aware you think you are, you'll start forgetting things and molding facts to fit into theories almost from the beginning. Especially if others witnessed the same accident, write down what YOU saw--in detail. You can flesh them out and organize them later and even compare notes--which may not agree completely with others' accounts--but keep your ORIGINAL observations. Our minds work in mysterious ways.
>
> Chip Bearden
> JB

And don't be surprised if your recollections a few days later differ from what you initially wrote down. Police involved in deadly encounters are usually not required to submit to a formal interview for at least 48 hours. Studies have shown that, when facing life threatening situations, memories are more accurate after two sleep cycles. They have also shown that every time we recall an event, we change the memory a bit. Mysterious indeed. Of course, the consequences for a cop having inconsistent statements are quite different than the survivor of a bailout.

I was involved in an incident (September 2003). United Airlines MD 80 and little olde me in a MD 520N were put into the same place in space and time by Burbank Tower. NASA was impressed enough about the two reports filed that they put me and the pilot the the MD 80 in touch (something they are not supposed to do). When I talked to the other pilot we each had different recollections of the exact moments of the incident. I know it happened at 150 feet, the MD 80 thought it was 25 feet... Amazing story, and and the old time I ever met an angel. But then again, it only takes one meeting to know for sure...

On Saturday, February 13, 2021 at 8:00:44 AM UTC-8, wrote:
> On Friday, February 12, 2021 at 11:06:29 AM UTC-5, wrote:
> > A really important message in Dave's excellent (though frustratingly inconclusive) PPT from P1 and P2: post accident, write down EVERYTHING you can remember ASAP.
> >
> > In my experience, spectators should do the same. I don't care how observant and resilient and aware you think you are, you'll start forgetting things and molding facts to fit into theories almost from the beginning. Especially if others witnessed the same accident, write down what YOU saw--in detail. You can flesh them out and organize them later and even compare notes--which may not agree completely with others' accounts--but keep your ORIGINAL observations. Our minds work in mysterious ways.
> >
> > Chip Bearden
> > JB
> And don't be surprised if your recollections a few days later differ from what you initially wrote down. Police involved in deadly encounters are usually not required to submit to a formal interview for at least 48 hours. Studies have shown that, when facing life threatening situations, memories are more accurate after two sleep cycles. They have also shown that every time we recall an event, we change the memory a bit. Mysterious indeed. Of course, the consequences for a cop having inconsistent statements are quite different than the survivor of a bailout.

On Friday, February 12, 2021 at 11:14:52 AM UTC-5, Hank Nixon wrote:
> On Friday, February 12, 2021 at 9:52:59 AM UTC-5, IADPE wrote:
> > Dave and Spence made a presentation at the Little Rock Convention regarding the incident. I can’t find the video archive of it, but I thought it was available.
> >
> > Here’s the NTSB report, not yet concluded: https://data.ntsb.gov/carol-repgen/api/Aviation/ReportMain/GenerateNewestReport/97551/pdf
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8I3A3dqsu0
> copy and paste link
> UH

Hank thank you for sharing those links. The youtube video is rather difficult to listen to - BUT MAN SHOULD YOU. Great things come from these events if there are survivors. My take away is briefings, equipment, and a prayer.

I'll be briefing bailouts (once I have my chute up and running) from now on..

Equipment will now include a static line for both seats, and the canopy struts will be replaced to assist in breakaway. The Spot will be stitched to my straps in a safe to mount place. I'll keep a car map with me in my pants. I'll only wear contacts if my vision gets as bad as his back seater apparently was, and I'll wear pants if possible. If I can work it out: I'll see if I can get a water holder on my pants, but hopefully that wouldn't mean losing the pants during opening lol!

I'm obviously open to further input. But those were some big takeaways for me.

Biggest takeaway: You'll likely be hurt and it'll be SEVERAL hours until someone begins looking for you. I'm having a Spot stitched to my chute.

On Sunday, February 14, 2021 at 12:14:07 AM UTC-5, wrote:
> On Friday, February 12, 2021 at 11:14:52 AM UTC-5, Hank Nixon wrote:
> > On Friday, February 12, 2021 at 9:52:59 AM UTC-5, IADPE wrote:
> > > Dave and Spence made a presentation at the Little Rock Convention regarding the incident. I can’t find the video archive of it, but I thought it was available.
> > >
> > > Here’s the NTSB report, not yet concluded: https://data.ntsb.gov/carol-repgen/api/Aviation/ReportMain/GenerateNewestReport/97551/pdf
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8I3A3dqsu0
> > copy and paste link
> > UH
> Hank thank you for sharing those links. The youtube video is rather difficult to listen to - BUT MAN SHOULD YOU. Great things come from these events if there are survivors. My take away is briefings, equipment, and a prayer..
>
> I'll be briefing bailouts (once I have my chute up and running) from now on.
>
> Equipment will now include a static line for both seats, and the canopy struts will be replaced to assist in breakaway. The Spot will be stitched to my straps in a safe to mount place. I'll keep a car map with me in my pants. I'll only wear contacts if my vision gets as bad as his back seater apparently was, and I'll wear pants if possible. If I can work it out: I'll see if I can get a water holder on my pants, but hopefully that wouldn't mean losing the pants during opening lol!
>
> I'm obviously open to further input. But those were some big takeaways for me.
FYI contacts will be gone even at subterminal freefall speeds.